MARCH 16, 2010 - MEETING AT THE DEC - FINFISH REGULATIONS - RECREATIONAL/FOR-HIRE
Where do I start as I will try to walk everyone through this as best as I can. It was a very long day as I came home from working 16 hours the prior evening, along with making calls to get a issue tabled for the meeting with the DEC here in New York. Thankfully it was I found out that morning, and many fishermen will not appreciate that it was squeezed into a jammed packed card of fishery issues here in New York State. Thanks to PJR, and I will let him comment when he sees fit.
THE OUTCOME FROM THE DAY & PARTY & CHARTER BOAT CAPTAINS ATTENDING
We being Captain Greg Ocean Eagle who was working on his boat when we got together, and Big Bobby drove out in the morning and was at the DEC bunker at 1:30. We did not leave on till a little before 6 pm, and did not get back to Sheepshead Bay till after 8 pm where we needed Roller Roaster to ease the hunga' pains from bumper to bumper traffic and a meeting where many captains were muttering under their breath, 'this sucks'.Among the attendees I saw, starting from the Bay, Captain Greg Ocean Eagle, from Freeport area, Captain Mike 'Codfather' Barnett, and Nick 'NO TIME' Savine, Captain Dennis from the Pt. Lookout Princess Marie, from Captree, Captain Rob from the Captree Princess, Captain Paul Risi who sits on the MRAC, from Montauk the Viking Fleet, Steven Forsberg Jr, and Captain Carl, from the North Fork, Captain Bob Rocchetta, Captain Richie Jensen, Captain Phil 'from Fishy Business, Captain Dave Brennan from the Peconic Star, from Port Jeff, our own Captain Desi. If I missed any captain, you can let me know.The room was literally standing room only when this meeting started.
AT ISSUE FOR THE NYS ANGLERS & THE PARTY/CHARTER BOAT INDUSTRY
1- Main issue by far, was NYS measures for the recreational industry for 2010 on SUMMER FLOUNDER, SCUP & BLACK SEA BASS.
2- A new effort brought up by the west end fleet, spearheaded by Captain Greg Ocean Eagle and Captain Mike Barnett of the Codfather on re-opening the winter closure period for the party & charter industry.
Before the tabled issues were addressed, two main talking points were brought up
1- Captain Mike ' Codfather' broke the ice as far as moving the winter mid winter blackfish closure during the months of Dec/Jan to March.I will explain some back ground on this later on, since it will go along with the blackfish closure we have suffered under here in NYS for the last 2 years.
2- Captain Bob Rocchetta brought up that the council should look into creating a special sub-committee to examine and quickly implement some way to address striped bass mortality that is specifically due to by-catch and waste of our most valuable inshore game fish in this region. Bob recommended that the council should move pro-actively to address this since the striped bass season opens up within a months time.From what I heard on this quick talking point, I doubt the council was looking to address this at this time which of course is a shame as the industry is looking to reduce this unnecessary waste of fish.
QUICK SIDEBAR ON THE NYS SWL
During the early discussion a point was brought up that New York State as recorded by MRFFS has approximately 1,000,000 anglers. So far approximately 160,000 SWL licenses have been sold to recreational saltwater anglers.....if I heard that number correctly.Some gasps were made in the audience as a number of people realized, that our regulations in this state is based on this 'assumption', or shall I say, fuzzy data input of users of the resources in NYS.But just think for a moment....even if fishermen in NYS, made a be line run to log onto and purchase their SWL on the DECALs system and that number magically jumps to 250,000 anglers or even 300,000, it would still be one quarter and/or roughly one third the number of anglers that NYS is supposed to have! It does show how LOUSY any counting system is that NMFS uses whether to count people and/or fish!One charter boat captain from Northport brought up a point which myself and a number of people have stated here. Why doesn't NY adopt New Jerseys system which is based upon the federal mandate of a free registry, instead of the current one which is license based that charges a fee? Essentially, wouldn't this bring the number of anglers noticeably up who would sign on since it is free and giving us a more accurate number of saltwater anglers here in NY?Of course this makes much more sense, but that is another lengthy, exhausting and frustrating discussion for another time.
SUMMER FLOUNDER
As we have seen and has been pointed out, this one species is possibly the most valuable fish for the recreational industry along the coast.Just some quick talking points that were brought up:- Summer flounder regulations based upon cooperative management with ASFMC- NYS was UNDER their quota for 2009- Mid season closure was viewed as 'disruptive' as it took momentum out of the fluke season- Spring fishery was HIGHLY IMPACTED in reducing landings due to the weather- Result was that fewer trips by fishermen led to NYS not exceeding quotaMoving forward to the 2010 season:- Coastwide TAL (total allowable landings) increased- NYS went from a quota of 360,000 fish to 449,000 summer flounder- This is due to an increase based upon the 17% of the fishery that NYS has historically been allotted to the recreational industryWhat was the recreational community looking for:- Liberalize what is landed- Maximize the season (more days of fishing)- Add days to back end of the season (month of September)- Address mortality due to the amount of fish returned that are under the NYS 21' limitWhat could not be done:- Liberalize all three controls in what is landed AT ONCEa- Smaller legal sized fishb- Larger bag limitc- More fishing daysProblems associated with the current summer flounder regulations:- High size limits results in much higher mortality to fish returned - Non existent south shore bay fishery- Does not take into account disjointed peak fishing periods that exist from east end of the island to west end of the island, north and south shores- Impracticality of current size limit to even meet bag limitMakes to much sense approach:Captain Paul Risi who sits on the council brought up an excellent point that due to the increased number of summer flounder around in our state waters due to the rebuilding of the stocks, that mortality increases due to:1- more fish being caught 2- high size limit which forces anglers to discard more fishThis again points to this below:SOLUTIONS:- Bob Daniels who sits on the council - Possible slot limit to protect breeders- If Coastwide approach of a 16 - 18 inch slot was adopted (less mortality due to undersized fish being returned)The frustration built within the summer flounder fishery:- Liberalization of the LENGTH OF THE SEASON was best alternative chosen- NYS, and I should add every other state is:a- Fighting the 'PROCESS' as to how accurately fish are counted that are LANDEDb- No flexibility in MSA rebuilding time tablec- Insane biomass rebuilding number required to meet MSA based upon so called 'early 1930's (1932) stock sizeAgain what would make the MOST SENSE:- Managing summer flounder within NY water literally requires a management plan that divides the Island:a- East & West from Morichesb- Bay & Ocean Fisheryc- Early (east end) & late season (west end) balance- A very slow movement toward regulations that are liberalized as far as a:a- Smaller size like New Jerseyb- Slightly larger bag limitReality check in summer flounder fishery:- Depending on the area of the Island, RSA may be necessary to buy for late summer fishing
SCUP
Let me first point this out:- What was originally being considered was NO BONUS SEASON!!!!!- Stock rebuilt to 200 percent of target!!!!!- Conservation Equivalency HELPS NYSo what is NYS dealing with for 2010:- Based upon findings of the ssc (science and statistical committee) they recommended only a 10 percent increase. instead of at a POSSIBLE minimum of a more liberalized 30 percent increase in landingsPoints brought up:Captain Dave Brennan - His business is almost exclusively scup based during the season and if there was a possibility if a more practical 25 man bag limit was put into place since:- 10 fish during most of the year is really an 'unofficial' closed season especially to the east end fleet- Bag limit is KEY for the scup angler- Perceived higher bag limit lessens the impact of a larger minimum legal size fish requiredInteresting give and take:Bob Rocchetta - To Gilmore after Dave Brennan spoke - should and must be fighting for NYS fishermenGilmore - at this time we are following 'PROCESS' not managing fisheriesMakes to much sense:Bob Rocchetta - pointed out that the numbers being used don't take into account that even licensed fishermen don't FISH EVERYDAY for EVERYTHING, nor land limits when they do fish, and the numbers being used are hurting fishermenConsideration given to:-Shore bound anglers as far as season and size limitResults:- Possible loss of 10 days during bonus season from 45 days to 35 days- 5 less fish in bonus bag season- Still no 'open' May spring season here in NYS Again as pointed out and makes no sense:- Extremely short fall season- No winter fishing for NYS boats or anglersDave Brennan -a full month of October scup fishing should be looked atReality check in scup fishery:- Fleet must realize that buying RSA in this fishery might be a necessity now especially in the springWalk away value on scup:Extremely troubling since scup fishing has been documented at its' best since the early 1960s as far as size and number seen in NYS water. The typical demographic that traditionally has targeted scup is directly hurt by these regulation especially in the early and late fall season. A big push should be made here for the party and charter boat fleet to attain an uninterrupted longer season that goes through December.
BLACK SEA BASSBefore I start here:- It is a total travesty what OUR GOVERNMENT has allowed NMFS to do to this fisheryEmergency 180 day shutdown addressed:- Resulted in both commercial & recreational industry to apply pressure for review on status of the sock- SSC after reviewing stock status, revised TAL UP for 2010- Fishery is considered REBUILT at this timeSituation considered at this time:- Status quo as far as bag and size limitTalking points:- Questions remain to sea bass fishing in Federal waters during the year- Questions as to why there is literally no fall fishery with early closureReality check in sea bass fishery:- Fleet must consider buying RSA sea bass to continue fishing in the fall period
TAUTOG/BLACKFISH - MID WINTER FISHERY CLOSURE EXAMINED
Let me begin by again saying, through a call I made and through great help from a friend, we were able to bring this issue of the current mid winter fishery closure for blackfish here in NYS up for general discussion.During the meeting I was passed relevant paperwork and bullets from one of the fishermen I know concerning this, which will give you the HARD NUMBERS & FACTS. To set the table here:- Addressing blackfish means revisiting the action made by the council to address the FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR TAUTOG, and these are the results within FINAL ADDENDUM IV which was wrapped up by late 2007:Recreational fishery comprised of both private boat anglers and the for-hire industry MUST:- Reduce fishing mortality to achieve F = .020- 28.7 percent reduction in overall fishinga. This was a FEDERAL MANDATEb. NYS would maintain Oct. 1st openingc. Closure during WAVE 1 ****d. Bag limit would be NO HIGHER then 4 fish per person****Due to the Closure during WAVE 1, 3 options were given to the for-hire industry:1- Jan 17 - Feb 28 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 23 2- Jan 8 - Feb 21 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 233- Jan 17 - April 30 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 20All would result in a total reduction of between 29.0-29.2 percent in overall fishingInteresting point that must be kept in mind:- Data collection was based upon MRFSS sampling- MRFSS DID NOT SAMPLE LANDINGS DURING JANUARY & FEBRUARY (SAMPLING WAVE 1)Facts:- NYS recreational anglers was FORCED by Feds (ASFMC) to reduce landings by 28% or be closed****ASFMC (FEDS) laid out plan in which YOU MUST TAKE 28% from RECREATIONAL sector 'even if' you decide to close NYS COMMERCIAL TOTALLY = 0 (Commercial total landings equal < class="postlink pdf_link" onclick="this.target='_blank';" href="http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocuments/tautog/annualreports/stockAssessments/2005TautogAssessmentReport.pdf" rel="nofollow">Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Tautog Stock Assessment Report for Peer Review
SO............ The question here is what does a for-hire boat do during the year as open seasons do not necessarily coincide with peak fishing periods, or for that matter, decent fishing periods. To the west, unless you have bought scup RSA, the big fish that come during the month of May must be returned. Sea Bass fishing in federal waters during the summer and fall months are now in question. Blackfishing during one of the peak times of the year......possibly gone unless you hold a NYS FFL.As I stated earlier, I am exhausted, and for those out there who make their living directly from the for-hire fleet, it will be a very trying year. It seems that NY based boats may have to start going 'nomadic' and travel and find places in other states such as New Jersey in the early winter and Massachusetts during May till mid June to fish.I will leave it to the rest of you as far as how 'workable' these regulations are, but I do see increasing pressure placed upon striped bass to literally carry the burden of the fishing fleet in this state.Any corrections, talking points, or personal ideas, opinions, please post them. There are definitely no winners here.....Ps,thanks to those captains that took the time showed up, and fought for the fishermen here in New York. It is truly a battle here to have some semblance of a non disruptive fishing season here in New York anymore.
Where do I start as I will try to walk everyone through this as best as I can. It was a very long day as I came home from working 16 hours the prior evening, along with making calls to get a issue tabled for the meeting with the DEC here in New York. Thankfully it was I found out that morning, and many fishermen will not appreciate that it was squeezed into a jammed packed card of fishery issues here in New York State. Thanks to PJR, and I will let him comment when he sees fit.
THE OUTCOME FROM THE DAY & PARTY & CHARTER BOAT CAPTAINS ATTENDING
We being Captain Greg Ocean Eagle who was working on his boat when we got together, and Big Bobby drove out in the morning and was at the DEC bunker at 1:30. We did not leave on till a little before 6 pm, and did not get back to Sheepshead Bay till after 8 pm where we needed Roller Roaster to ease the hunga' pains from bumper to bumper traffic and a meeting where many captains were muttering under their breath, 'this sucks'.Among the attendees I saw, starting from the Bay, Captain Greg Ocean Eagle, from Freeport area, Captain Mike 'Codfather' Barnett, and Nick 'NO TIME' Savine, Captain Dennis from the Pt. Lookout Princess Marie, from Captree, Captain Rob from the Captree Princess, Captain Paul Risi who sits on the MRAC, from Montauk the Viking Fleet, Steven Forsberg Jr, and Captain Carl, from the North Fork, Captain Bob Rocchetta, Captain Richie Jensen, Captain Phil 'from Fishy Business, Captain Dave Brennan from the Peconic Star, from Port Jeff, our own Captain Desi. If I missed any captain, you can let me know.The room was literally standing room only when this meeting started.
AT ISSUE FOR THE NYS ANGLERS & THE PARTY/CHARTER BOAT INDUSTRY
1- Main issue by far, was NYS measures for the recreational industry for 2010 on SUMMER FLOUNDER, SCUP & BLACK SEA BASS.
2- A new effort brought up by the west end fleet, spearheaded by Captain Greg Ocean Eagle and Captain Mike Barnett of the Codfather on re-opening the winter closure period for the party & charter industry.
Before the tabled issues were addressed, two main talking points were brought up
1- Captain Mike ' Codfather' broke the ice as far as moving the winter mid winter blackfish closure during the months of Dec/Jan to March.I will explain some back ground on this later on, since it will go along with the blackfish closure we have suffered under here in NYS for the last 2 years.
2- Captain Bob Rocchetta brought up that the council should look into creating a special sub-committee to examine and quickly implement some way to address striped bass mortality that is specifically due to by-catch and waste of our most valuable inshore game fish in this region. Bob recommended that the council should move pro-actively to address this since the striped bass season opens up within a months time.From what I heard on this quick talking point, I doubt the council was looking to address this at this time which of course is a shame as the industry is looking to reduce this unnecessary waste of fish.
QUICK SIDEBAR ON THE NYS SWL
During the early discussion a point was brought up that New York State as recorded by MRFFS has approximately 1,000,000 anglers. So far approximately 160,000 SWL licenses have been sold to recreational saltwater anglers.....if I heard that number correctly.Some gasps were made in the audience as a number of people realized, that our regulations in this state is based on this 'assumption', or shall I say, fuzzy data input of users of the resources in NYS.But just think for a moment....even if fishermen in NYS, made a be line run to log onto and purchase their SWL on the DECALs system and that number magically jumps to 250,000 anglers or even 300,000, it would still be one quarter and/or roughly one third the number of anglers that NYS is supposed to have! It does show how LOUSY any counting system is that NMFS uses whether to count people and/or fish!One charter boat captain from Northport brought up a point which myself and a number of people have stated here. Why doesn't NY adopt New Jerseys system which is based upon the federal mandate of a free registry, instead of the current one which is license based that charges a fee? Essentially, wouldn't this bring the number of anglers noticeably up who would sign on since it is free and giving us a more accurate number of saltwater anglers here in NY?Of course this makes much more sense, but that is another lengthy, exhausting and frustrating discussion for another time.
SUMMER FLOUNDER
As we have seen and has been pointed out, this one species is possibly the most valuable fish for the recreational industry along the coast.Just some quick talking points that were brought up:- Summer flounder regulations based upon cooperative management with ASFMC- NYS was UNDER their quota for 2009- Mid season closure was viewed as 'disruptive' as it took momentum out of the fluke season- Spring fishery was HIGHLY IMPACTED in reducing landings due to the weather- Result was that fewer trips by fishermen led to NYS not exceeding quotaMoving forward to the 2010 season:- Coastwide TAL (total allowable landings) increased- NYS went from a quota of 360,000 fish to 449,000 summer flounder- This is due to an increase based upon the 17% of the fishery that NYS has historically been allotted to the recreational industryWhat was the recreational community looking for:- Liberalize what is landed- Maximize the season (more days of fishing)- Add days to back end of the season (month of September)- Address mortality due to the amount of fish returned that are under the NYS 21' limitWhat could not be done:- Liberalize all three controls in what is landed AT ONCEa- Smaller legal sized fishb- Larger bag limitc- More fishing daysProblems associated with the current summer flounder regulations:- High size limits results in much higher mortality to fish returned - Non existent south shore bay fishery- Does not take into account disjointed peak fishing periods that exist from east end of the island to west end of the island, north and south shores- Impracticality of current size limit to even meet bag limitMakes to much sense approach:Captain Paul Risi who sits on the council brought up an excellent point that due to the increased number of summer flounder around in our state waters due to the rebuilding of the stocks, that mortality increases due to:1- more fish being caught 2- high size limit which forces anglers to discard more fishThis again points to this below:SOLUTIONS:- Bob Daniels who sits on the council - Possible slot limit to protect breeders- If Coastwide approach of a 16 - 18 inch slot was adopted (less mortality due to undersized fish being returned)The frustration built within the summer flounder fishery:- Liberalization of the LENGTH OF THE SEASON was best alternative chosen- NYS, and I should add every other state is:a- Fighting the 'PROCESS' as to how accurately fish are counted that are LANDEDb- No flexibility in MSA rebuilding time tablec- Insane biomass rebuilding number required to meet MSA based upon so called 'early 1930's (1932) stock sizeAgain what would make the MOST SENSE:- Managing summer flounder within NY water literally requires a management plan that divides the Island:a- East & West from Morichesb- Bay & Ocean Fisheryc- Early (east end) & late season (west end) balance- A very slow movement toward regulations that are liberalized as far as a:a- Smaller size like New Jerseyb- Slightly larger bag limitReality check in summer flounder fishery:- Depending on the area of the Island, RSA may be necessary to buy for late summer fishing
SCUP
Let me first point this out:- What was originally being considered was NO BONUS SEASON!!!!!- Stock rebuilt to 200 percent of target!!!!!- Conservation Equivalency HELPS NYSo what is NYS dealing with for 2010:- Based upon findings of the ssc (science and statistical committee) they recommended only a 10 percent increase. instead of at a POSSIBLE minimum of a more liberalized 30 percent increase in landingsPoints brought up:Captain Dave Brennan - His business is almost exclusively scup based during the season and if there was a possibility if a more practical 25 man bag limit was put into place since:- 10 fish during most of the year is really an 'unofficial' closed season especially to the east end fleet- Bag limit is KEY for the scup angler- Perceived higher bag limit lessens the impact of a larger minimum legal size fish requiredInteresting give and take:Bob Rocchetta - To Gilmore after Dave Brennan spoke - should and must be fighting for NYS fishermenGilmore - at this time we are following 'PROCESS' not managing fisheriesMakes to much sense:Bob Rocchetta - pointed out that the numbers being used don't take into account that even licensed fishermen don't FISH EVERYDAY for EVERYTHING, nor land limits when they do fish, and the numbers being used are hurting fishermenConsideration given to:-Shore bound anglers as far as season and size limitResults:- Possible loss of 10 days during bonus season from 45 days to 35 days- 5 less fish in bonus bag season- Still no 'open' May spring season here in NYS Again as pointed out and makes no sense:- Extremely short fall season- No winter fishing for NYS boats or anglersDave Brennan -a full month of October scup fishing should be looked atReality check in scup fishery:- Fleet must realize that buying RSA in this fishery might be a necessity now especially in the springWalk away value on scup:Extremely troubling since scup fishing has been documented at its' best since the early 1960s as far as size and number seen in NYS water. The typical demographic that traditionally has targeted scup is directly hurt by these regulation especially in the early and late fall season. A big push should be made here for the party and charter boat fleet to attain an uninterrupted longer season that goes through December.
BLACK SEA BASSBefore I start here:- It is a total travesty what OUR GOVERNMENT has allowed NMFS to do to this fisheryEmergency 180 day shutdown addressed:- Resulted in both commercial & recreational industry to apply pressure for review on status of the sock- SSC after reviewing stock status, revised TAL UP for 2010- Fishery is considered REBUILT at this timeSituation considered at this time:- Status quo as far as bag and size limitTalking points:- Questions remain to sea bass fishing in Federal waters during the year- Questions as to why there is literally no fall fishery with early closureReality check in sea bass fishery:- Fleet must consider buying RSA sea bass to continue fishing in the fall period
TAUTOG/BLACKFISH - MID WINTER FISHERY CLOSURE EXAMINED
Let me begin by again saying, through a call I made and through great help from a friend, we were able to bring this issue of the current mid winter fishery closure for blackfish here in NYS up for general discussion.During the meeting I was passed relevant paperwork and bullets from one of the fishermen I know concerning this, which will give you the HARD NUMBERS & FACTS. To set the table here:- Addressing blackfish means revisiting the action made by the council to address the FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR TAUTOG, and these are the results within FINAL ADDENDUM IV which was wrapped up by late 2007:Recreational fishery comprised of both private boat anglers and the for-hire industry MUST:- Reduce fishing mortality to achieve F = .020- 28.7 percent reduction in overall fishinga. This was a FEDERAL MANDATEb. NYS would maintain Oct. 1st openingc. Closure during WAVE 1 ****d. Bag limit would be NO HIGHER then 4 fish per person****Due to the Closure during WAVE 1, 3 options were given to the for-hire industry:1- Jan 17 - Feb 28 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 23 2- Jan 8 - Feb 21 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 233- Jan 17 - April 30 & Fall Oct 1 - Dec 20All would result in a total reduction of between 29.0-29.2 percent in overall fishingInteresting point that must be kept in mind:- Data collection was based upon MRFSS sampling- MRFSS DID NOT SAMPLE LANDINGS DURING JANUARY & FEBRUARY (SAMPLING WAVE 1)Facts:- NYS recreational anglers was FORCED by Feds (ASFMC) to reduce landings by 28% or be closed****ASFMC (FEDS) laid out plan in which YOU MUST TAKE 28% from RECREATIONAL sector 'even if' you decide to close NYS COMMERCIAL TOTALLY = 0 (Commercial total landings equal < class="postlink pdf_link" onclick="this.target='_blank';" href="http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocuments/tautog/annualreports/stockAssessments/2005TautogAssessmentReport.pdf" rel="nofollow">Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Tautog Stock Assessment Report for Peer Review
SO............ The question here is what does a for-hire boat do during the year as open seasons do not necessarily coincide with peak fishing periods, or for that matter, decent fishing periods. To the west, unless you have bought scup RSA, the big fish that come during the month of May must be returned. Sea Bass fishing in federal waters during the summer and fall months are now in question. Blackfishing during one of the peak times of the year......possibly gone unless you hold a NYS FFL.As I stated earlier, I am exhausted, and for those out there who make their living directly from the for-hire fleet, it will be a very trying year. It seems that NY based boats may have to start going 'nomadic' and travel and find places in other states such as New Jersey in the early winter and Massachusetts during May till mid June to fish.I will leave it to the rest of you as far as how 'workable' these regulations are, but I do see increasing pressure placed upon striped bass to literally carry the burden of the fishing fleet in this state.Any corrections, talking points, or personal ideas, opinions, please post them. There are definitely no winners here.....Ps,thanks to those captains that took the time showed up, and fought for the fishermen here in New York. It is truly a battle here to have some semblance of a non disruptive fishing season here in New York anymore.
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